– The dialogue between Poland and Ukraine has been interrupted. We do not want to listen to each other. I was recently refused an exhumation, claiming that this matter must first be resolved by politicians. Perhaps this has happened now – said Karolina Romanowska, head of the Polish-Ukrainian Reconciliation Association and the first private person in history to apply for the exhumation of members of her family, murdered in 1943 in Volhynia. In her opinion, despite the positive words of the head of the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs about not blocking this process, there is still a long way to finally resolve the Volhynia issue. – This is a very specific gesture, but still a gesture. I hope that this time we will succeed, because we have the support of not only politicians, but also Ukrainian society – Romanowska said in an interview with Onet.pl. 

• Yesterday, Karolina Romanowska submitted another official application for permission to search and exhumation in Volhynia. She is waiting for a response.  

• “Ukrainians pressured their politicians to take such a step. It was done by ordinary people, but also by journalists and Ukrainian historians. I honestly admit that I do not personally know any Ukrainian who was against the exhumations in Volhynia. Even contemporary Ukrainian nationalists are behind us,” admits Karolina Romanowska.  

• “My mother once said: ‘children are not responsible for the crimes of their parents or grandparents. Every person is responsible for themselves.’ I have heard the word ‘sorry’ many times. Also from ordinary, young Ukrainians. I do not need more words. Now it is time for action,” she adds. 

Romanowska: “I think we have crashed into a wall of bizarre, Ukrainian bureaucracy”

Piotr Kaszuwara: President Andrzej Duda stated that we will only be able to talk about the success of the exhumation in Volhynia when the search and exhumation process actually begins. Quite moderate optimism of our President. Probably you have similar feelings?  

Karolina Romanowska, Polish-Ukrainian Reconciliation Association: I definitely agree with President Duda’s words for a simple reason. In September 2024, I received permission from the Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance to exhume and search for victims of the Volhynian massacre in the village of Ugly in the current Rivne Oblast, where about 100 people are buried in an unmarked grave, including 18 members of my family. And then I also thought it was some kind of breakthrough. In my opinion, it actually was, because no one had received such permission before, but there was a catch in this response. The information was that the Ukrainian Institute could not make such a decision on its own anyway, and the final consent should be given by the Ukrainian Ministry of Culture. That is why we wrote there and also directly addressed the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky. In total, there were three applications from us.  

After the head of the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Andrii Sybiha announced that Ukraine would no longer block the search and exhumation in Volhynia, did you submit another application?  

Yes. We have already sent the documents. We are waiting for a positive response, because the previous one did not inspire optimism. It was not so much a refusal from Ms. Anastazja Bodnar, but four pages of bureaucratic explanation of what else we should do. Its tone was completely different from the previous declaration of the Ukrainian Institute. It did not inspire hope, because, summarizing in one sentence, the deputy minister stated that this issue must be resolved by politicians. 

When we spoke a few months ago, it seemed that it could not be ruined. The decision of the Ukrainian Institute, the consent of the Ukrainian society, even the rather radically nationalist side, plus your strong argument for a dignified burial of family members. What went wrong?  

I think we have crashed into a wall of bizarre, Ukrainian bureaucracy. The requirements that were placed before us foretold Sisyphean labors. Instead of simply approving our application or refusing us, it is difficult to understand why they did so. 

We would have to go back to 2017, because that is when the dispute between Poland and Ukraine has been ongoing. At that time, Ukraine introduced a ban on searching for and exhuming the remains of Polish victims of wars and conflicts on Ukrainian territory, due to the dismantling of the monument to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (so-called UPA – ed.), in Hruszowice. To date, this place of remembrance has not been rebuilt. Despite this “supposed” consent from Anton Drobowycz, the head of the Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance, spoke very harshly about Poland, describing this “supposed” dialogue as “pressure instead of understanding”. He claimed that Poland was not interested in compromise.  

It is probably no secret that the lack of agreement on Volhynia is also an expression of the conflict between the Ukrainian and Polish Institute of National Remembrance. When I was organizing workshops on Polish-Ukrainian reconciliation in Volhynia, I also invited representatives of the Polish Institute of National Remembrance there, but no one was interested in visiting. And I learned that from the Ukrainian side. So this dialogue was indeed interrupted. There was no Polish-Ukrainian commission established to deal with these topics. 

However, applications and requests were sent. Nine such letters from the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, concerning the exhumation in 65 locations. They were sent between 2017 and 2024. Most of them remained unanswered by Ukraine.  

Perhaps there was a lack of diplomatic skills. Exhumations and the search for victims is a very difficult topic. I believe that there should be no return conditions here, and that is probably why Ukrainian society felt the Poles’ outrage more strongly. I myself do not fully understand this conflict of the Institutes of National Remembrance. 

Whatever it was, this lack of agreement meant that you still have not buried your loved ones. 

Yet. 

Do you think that threats were necessary to shock Ukrainians, to make them understand how important the subject of Volhynia is to us, that it is a national tragedy, even a national historical trauma? Radosław Sikorski, previously Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz, and a few years ago Jarosław Kaczyński stated that Ukraine would not join the European Union with the UPA and without resolving the Volhynia issue. Poland would block Kiev in its efforts to join Europe.  

Many Poles expected a firm reaction from the Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs. But Minister Sikorski has never refused military aid to Ukraine during the ongoing war. He is trying to build the best possible diplomatic relations with Ukraine. And these are two different issues: assistance in survival during the war, humanitarian aid and the Volhynia issue. 

Assistance during the war, which in 2014 began with people wanting to join Europe, and the former president Viktor Yanukovych returned from Moscow and refused to take action on accession to the Union. Then the Maidan broke out.  

Ukraine in the EU is also obviously a very important issue for Poland, but let’s not hide the fact that it will be a process that will not end in a year or two. Many Ukrainians know that it may take up to 10 years after the end of the war. They are not that optimistic. And these are completely separate issues. Some matters must be dealt with independently of each other. 

From the declaration of Minister Andrii Sybiha – I have the impression that – it will be difficult to withdraw.  

It is a very specific gesture, but still a gesture. I hope that this time it will work, because we have been supported not only by politicians, but also by Ukrainian society. 

Indeed, in recent months, a lot has been written and spoken about Volhynia in Ukraine. Radio Svoboda, Ukrayinska Pravda, many well-known bloggers and YouTubers have told people about the Polish perspective. Do you think that this has finally reached many ordinary people?  

I think so, and I think that Ukrainians have put a little pressure on their politicians to take such a step. This was done by ordinary people, but also by journalists and Ukrainian historians. I will admit honestly that I do not personally know any Ukrainian who was against the exhumations in Volhynia. Even contemporary Ukrainian nationalists are for us, and you yourself talked to them and wrote an article about it on Onet. So if Ukrainian society is reacting, the government also had no choice but to take a stance on it. The fact that we are where we are today is due to Polish-Ukrainian cooperation, including the Ukrainians from my Association. 

We have known for a long time that Volhynia, the Volhynia massacre, the Volhynia tragedy, no matter what you call it, is a political issue. It was often said that it is more convenient for Poland, Ukraine and Russia to simply resolve this issue than to actually resolve it. The presidential candidate from Law and Justice, the head of the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, Karol Nawrocki, claims that he is able to start the exhumations in Volhynia within 24 hours. He has specialists, he has the knowledge, he knows how to do it. Is this a complicated and expensive procedure? 

You mentioned financial issues and I think this is also extremely important. Because first of all, you have to ask yourself who will pay for this? And I got a response from the Polish government, verbal for now, that it will not leave me with this and that it will find money for the exhumations. Of course, we have a plan B. If the money is not found, we will simply collect money and that’s it. But it is known that this is a very expensive process. Specialists are needed. These are anthropologists, archaeologists, historians, observers, but also those who will work physically with shovels. 

The process itself consists of two elements. The first stage is the search. In Ugly, it is easier because we know where these people are buried. There are two oak trees there that somehow mark this grave. However, easier does not mean easy, because the graves can be moved 5 or 10 meters to a different place than we know about. It will probably be necessary to dig up 30-50 meters of the territory to precisely locate the bodies.  

Mr. Anton Drobowycz from the Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance claimed in one of the texts published in the European Truth that there are no such places in Ukraine, because no one can give an example of bones lying in fields, ditches or in wells in Volhynia and Galicia. 

Unfortunately, these are painful words and very unpleasant, because I know many such places and Ugly is a definitive example of such a place, because in addition to this mass pit, this mass grave, a few dozen meters away there was even a depression in the clearing where the well was. And according to witnesses from my family, my uncle, my great-grandfather, my grandfather, there are also bodies in this well. And you can clearly see this depression in the ground. I have heard accounts from 100-year-old Ukrainians who themselves admitted that many bodies, and even living people, were thrown into the well. Another example is the village of Ostrówki, where bones can still be found in the field. Here, of course, an anthropologist would be needed to confirm what kind of bones they are. In addition, we still find remains of burnt houses, fragments of jewelry, furniture.  

Some Ukrainians say: “exhumations yes, but not now. There is a war going on now. Ukraine is shedding blood for freedom, it has to defend itself, and the Poles are stabbing it in the back.” They sometimes add that a Russian missile could fall on the search site and kill everyone. There could be a provocation from Moscow. And what then? 

Of course, there is no hiding of the fact that Ukraine is at war and that this is a huge risk. But let’s hope that the war will end soon. Maybe sooner than we think. It all depends on the situation. The President of the Polish Institute of National Remembrance assured that he could start work within 24 hours and send people to Volhynia even during the war. To be honest, rockets fall on Volhynia very rarely. As for the Russian provocation, we don’t know what to expect from them. But at this point it should probably be added that exhumations and burials of Wehrmacht soldiers took place. Even near Zaporozhye, where the threat is much greater than in western Ukraine.  

So will it work despite the obstacles? 

Even today I had several phone calls. Relatives called with the hope that we would finally meet at the funeral in Volhynia. Many people from my family are already elderly. They don’t have time to wait any longer.  

In this battle that you are fighting, that many people in Poland are fighting, if it comes to the point that searches and exhumations actually begin, will it be possible to say that someone has won? 

It is not about someone winning or losing. It is simply about reconciliation. About building bridges between Poland and Ukraine. About bringing our nations closer together. And it seems to me that Volhynia is precisely the issue that is constantly standing in our way of building relationships based primarily on trust and understanding. But for this understanding to happen, we need to know ourselves and know our history. Today we have a unique opportunity for this, because to a large extent it is the Ukrainians who are suffering and dying in the war who have shown us support. They know that something happened in Volhynia that they cannot be proud of and they want to put it behind them. On the other hand, Poles, when I talked to those who took part in the revenge on Ukrainians, are not proud of it either. Or when it comes to other historical issues, such as the Vistula operation. We must become aware and see our pain in these different historical aspects. This is the only way to reconciliation. 

Will this also be the end of symmetry? If these exhumations are finally carried out and the remains examined? Because the Ukrainian side very often emphasizes: “yes, there was a tragedy in Volhynia, but it is our common tragedy”.  

I wouldn’t say that this will be the end of anything, because everything is a process. The exhumations will be the beginning of a dialogue. A resumption of the conversation. But we have a lot of work ahead of us. Better late than never, right? 

We may also have to demythologize Volhynia, because many terrible stories have grown up around what happened in the 1940s. Will the exhumations dispel this national myth? Or maybe later on, there will be more expectations like: “now apologize”?  

There will be time for everything, because Poles actually expect the word “I’m sorry”. As my mother said: “such words are very important, because they help you come to terms with yourself and change your attitude to what happened”.  

Do you need an apology?  

I don’t. My mother also said: “children are not responsible for the crimes of their parents or grandparents. Each person is responsible for themselves”. I have heard the word “I’m sorry” many times. Also from ordinary, young Ukrainians. I don’t need more words. Now I’m waiting for actions. 

…but you often thank Ukrainians for that…  

Yes. Because without them, it wouldn’t have worked. It’s moving when a stranger who knows my family history comes up to me and says “I’m sorry”. It’s hard not to say “thank you”. 

The text you just read was published in Onet.pl.